Patrick Kenny wasn't deterred when his first feature film was refused funding, he made it himself independently. Nerea Aymerich talks to Patrick about the long journey that resulted in his film Winter's End.

Nerea: When and how did you decide to get into the filmmaking industry?

Patrick: I left Secondary School in 1979, which was standard practice at the time, but I knew I wanted to work in film industry. There was no ambiguity about that whatsoever, but unfortunately wanting to be a filmmaker in Ireland at that time was very much like hoping to be an Irish astronaut, it was just ridiculous. So I did the only thing that was sensible to do: get a job that could give me some kind of security. That was an additional problem because it took me outside Dublin a lot, so anything that was emerging at Filmbase and all that was out of my reach.

You often hear of people reaching a certain stage in their life, mostly when you are coming up to your 40th birthday for some reason… I always had the desire to work in film. I remember thinking at the time if something has been knocking on your door for over twenty years maybe you should open the door, so I did. I basically faced the choice - do something about it now or bury it forever and completely forget about it. So I decided to make a feature length film. I didn't have the money, didn't have the experience, didn't have the training, I didn't have any of that. But I thought, 'If I'm as good as I think I am, well, then I'll pull it off'. I was looking to meet somebody in Kilkenny who was equally as passionate about films from the producing point of view, so we got together and embarked on this thing with a tiny amount of money. I think we managed to put something like £10,000 together between us, and that was that. We put a little extra money into the local sponsorship scheme asking people to support the project, which they did.

I'd written the script over the period of a year on a part time basis, in my own time. I took a month off work to shoot the film, then we shot it and everybody was really happy at the end of it. You know, we've made a film – that's brilliant!. But I knew a mountain of work lay ahead of me. We still had no money, I couldn't afford an editor, I couldn't even dream of it. So I learnt how to edit, I bought the software, I edited at home, I put it all together over the period of two years on a part time basis – in the evenings, on the weekends…

We looked for production finance; we knew it was going to be really hard because they didn't know who we were, we had no experience and they said no. So we went back to the Film Board when I had done a 20-minute edit, and I said 'this is what we shot, take a look at that and see if there's any way we can finish it'. Again they said no. Okay, that's fine. I talked to Brendan McCarthy, after that decision and I said to him I didn't know where to go, I had no money, I was trying to get it finished. He understood what we were trying to do and he said to me 'if you finish the edit, you'll have much better chance of getting completion funding; you need to get a musician in, you need to get an editor, etc'. So I finished the edit. We went back to the Film Board and they said yes to completion funding. We were looking for €30,000 and they said yes. And that's how I got an editor, a composer, and a sound editor.

I sat down with the editor and we talked about the structure and what the potential of the story was. Some stuff had to go, that was very obvious, it was way too long (it was 2 hours and 45 min and we brought it down to 98 min). He was very happy with that, and I was too because it's great to have that much to tear away, very often it's the other way around. And the more we were cutting away the stronger it got.

Is there anything you would have liked to have in the final edit that was taken out?

I have to say we worked out most of what had to go, there were just one or two things that we didn't agree on. But I respected his opinion, if he's been hired as an editor I'm not going to come in and then say 'No, we won't do that'. For instance, we had already picture locked the opening sequence, and I got a phone call in the middle of the night and he said 'No, I'm not happy with that, it has to change, the opening is all wrong'. And funny enough, what he went back to was what was in the script; I put together an opening from a lot of footage I had and he said 'the simpler the better', and he was right. That's why you pay people money.

When the Film Board turned down your project did you get any kind of explanation or advice so you can find ways to improve it?

No. I had put forward a script before Winter's End for development funding; a lot of work went into it, and it got a two-line 'no'. If they gave you some feedback on it and made suggestions about where the script perhaps could go… but to get two lines is a terrible feeling. I think that's changed now. My opinion about the Film Board is they do great work, and not everything can get funded, and I fully accept that. And therefore I'm going to be among those who are gonna be told 'no'. At the same time I look at their work and perhaps I think they got over-stretched, I would love to see what I would call an Irish Film Commission, and the work of the Commission would be to attract foreign productions into this country so the Board could concentrate on Irish filmmakers, writers, directors, producers… the Board could become much more focused.

What attracted to you to this particular story?

I was always attracted to the thriller genre. They say ideas can come from anywhere. With this particular script what happened was, you know when you wake up in the morning you can remember the dream that you had, but you may not remember the entire dream, you just remember a fragment and then you try to work how the rest of it went? The fragment I could remember is that I was looking for my car, walked into a field and I knew my car was parked there but I couldn't find it. Behind me I saw a guy standing at the gate, a farmer, and I walked over to him to ask him – and that was it, that was what I could remember. I thought that was an interesting idea, I wondered what could have happened to my car. You know when you start thinking 'maybe this' or 'what if'; it's just out of that little thing that the whole idea kind of germinated.

What suits you best, writing or directing?

Definitely directing. Writing is a lonely task. It's you, the paper, and nothing else. Directing is so clever, you are getting so much feedback from people from the actors to the crew. And special things happen that you don't even expect. I have to say I loved the editing process too, because you can see all of that work begin to come to life..

While directing did you faithfully stick to the original script or were there many last minute changes?

I remember shooting one particular scene and immediately I knew it wasn't working and I couldn't make it work. It was not the actor giving you a bad performance, not the camera angle or the lighting; it was just scripted badly. The fix kind of changed the story a little bit but not drastically. I like having that flexibility.

How did you end up working with producer Damien Donnelly?

He was involved in a kind of a part-time amateur filmmaking group, which grew out of an evening filmmaking class. I got to hear of this and gave him a call, then we met up. I involved myself a little bit in one of his workshop productions – that's how I got to know him.

I put the idea to Damien and naturally he didn't jump at it, he kind of resisted and resisted and I kept calling back and back saying 'we can do this, we can do this'. Eventually he said yes, he also said 'If we start this we finish it' because he knew there are so many of these projects, they start, they get half way through, they run out of money and impetus and they never get completed. I didn't want that to happen so I gave him my commitment to finish it, which is why I worked two years on the edit.

How long did the shoot take?

We shot for four weeks, 6 days a week in September in 2001. I found it difficult at the time, to judge how long it would actually take. This was my lack of experience.I did make out a production schedule with some software I got free off the net, but it's very difficult if you haven't shot before to know how long it will take – I didn't know how long it takes to light, or anything like that. I think we shot for fourteen days after that on the weekends.

The music is fabulous.

Absolutely. I think I was searching for somebody to do the music for about a year. I advertised it in Filmbase and people sent me a lot of CDs. Some of the stuff I thought 'I can make that work', but nothing was like 'that's the one to go with'. So I kept looking and looking and after mentioning this to somebody one day he said: 'you should try this guy, his name is Gregory Magee'. So I gave him a call and asked him if he could send me a disc, he said 'sure'. When I put the disk on and listened to it, I actually, within the first twenty seconds, knew he was the guy to do it. It was his style he didn't have to kind of try and fit it in. We just sat down for a few hours, talked about the story, I described the main character, Henry, as a later day Heathcliff and he totally got that. So we got through it. And that was it, I walked away, and about two months later he delivered the music. And we changed nothing after that. It was brilliant.

You have submitted Winter's End for many festivals, what's the reaction so far?

The reaction has been really good. We showed it initially in a cinema in Kilkenny for the local people that supported us, then it had its official premiere in the Galway Film Fleadh last year and we got the Irish Film and Television Awards nomination for best actress (Jillian Bradbury) and best music, we won best music. The film was screened in Los Angeles, at the Hollywood DV Festival and we received the best picture award. It's now in competition in the online version of Cinequest, which is one of the top ten festivals. We have, in a sense, closed the circle. We had done deals with sales agents to go North America and Germany for all rights worldwide except Ireland so we have taken it as far as we can. We have also sold the Irish broadcast rights to RTÉ.

What would be your advice for low budget or no budget filmmakers?

It's possible, it's very possible, particularly with the new technologies, but it does require blood, sweat and tears and it requires a lot of sacrifice - particularly if you are going for a feature film. Unfortunately I think a lot of people give up if the Film Board says no. If there's anything our film proves is that a 'no' from the IFB does not have to mean that the film cannot be pushed forward.

What are you planning to do next?

At the moment I'm working on a script, it's a thriller. It's more kind of a European story this time. When it comes to screenwriting I believe that you really cannot sit down and start on a blank page and write the script from page 1 to page 98. I think there's a lot of pre-work that needs to go into it: the story outline, the structure, your treatment… So I'm working on that now. I hope to be in a position within a couple of months to offer it to film producers. The other thing I'd like to do is get work as a director for hire, be that in film or TV drama. So I'm pushing projects I'm working on right now, but at the same time I want to work on projects just as director. Directing is a craft and like any craft the more you do it the better you get at it.

Winter's End is available from www.wintersend.net